Professing Atheists Worship Creation Rather than the Creator

April 2, 2009 at 8:14 am | Posted in ProfessingAtheists | 24 Comments
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Professing Atheist: I would challenge any Christian to step out side of the Christian “box” and just for a moment consider the vast scientific evidence regarding the origins of the universe and of life.

Christian: Since you have brought up scientific evidence, this may be helpful: Little children, in elementary school, are commonly taught the “scientific method.” I know it’s more complicated than this, but, basically it boils down to teaching them to take matter and examine its properties, and learn about it, using their natural senses. Touch it. Look at it. Smell it. Taste it. I’m not opposed to children being taught that way, but think of the spiritual implications. In Genesis Chap. 27, Isaac employed a form of the scientific method with Jacob. Jacob and Rebekah plotted to deceive Isaac into thinking that Jacob was Esau. Isaac touched him. He listened to him. He couldn’t see him but, no doubt, he smelled him. And he came to the wrong conclusion! It would have been better for Isaac just to believe God’s promise by faith, that Jacob, although the younger, and not Esau, was to receive the blessing.

Professing Atheist: Have you ever been in an aircraft? If so, the fact that you landed again is because a large number of scientists kept working and improving things until they got their sums right. Evidence matters. Planes fly, diseases are cured, water comes out when you turn the tap on, and you and I can argue in cyberspace like this. You benefit from real, evidence-based science as much as I do. It’s hypocritical of you to dismiss it.

Would you say that (for example) Iranians and pagan Vikings would be “without excuse” if they “failed to acknowledge” God?

Christian: Hypocrisy is being grateful for the benefits of evidence-based science while ignoring God, who created all the scientific laws that the aviators, doctors, and engineers have discovered (John 1:3). Every time your heart beats, it is not thanks to cardiology or cardiologists. It is thanks to God, Who has caused it to beat, by His sovereign power, your whole life. When you expel the next breath of air from your nostrils, you will have hope of another breath, not because a scientist discovered evidence of the air you breath, but because God provides it (Isaiah 2:22).

You can check this out by climbing up on a roof. Shake your fist, and cry out, “I don’t believe you exist, Gravity! You can’t be real! If you were real, you would not have held all those Norsemen and Iranians down! You would have let them float away in true freedom! Therefore, I defy, O Gravity, that you exist!” Then, leap off the roof. (By the way, I do not recommend that you really try this.) But if you did, you would see that, if you break God’s law of gravity, then God’s law of gravity will break you – literally. It’s the same way with God’s Biblical laws. You can break them if you want. But, if you do, they will break you (Galatians 6:7).

Professing Atheist: Well, I have other, more worthwhile calls on my time, but the Devil can quote scripture, as they say, so here I go. You will be as familiar with John 3:16 as I am, or as any of those people who hold up placards at wrestling matches. You would, I feel sure, assert that God’s purpose to all humanity, in sending his Son to die for us, is loving and merciful. Tell me, what do you believe that loving and merciful God, and gentle Jesus, meek and mild, have in store for these billions of people, all ignorant, in my humble opinion, through no fault of their own?

Christian: When considering the decision to accept, or willfully reject, the truth of the existence of God, it is irrelevant what anyone “thinks” would produce results, or what anyone’s humble “opinion” is – apart from Scripture.

I hope that the more worthwhile calls on your time do not include actually going to the wrestling matches where the John 3:16 placards are held. You are coming to that verse in isolation, not taking into account the entirety of Scripture. These Iranians and Vikings you mention – just like me, and just like you, and just like everyone else – are wicked sinners, who deserve God’s judgment (Romans 3:10; 3:23). Because He is loving and merciful, He sent His Son to die. Because He is just, righteous, true, and holy, He must judge those Who reject His Son.

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  1. This is the kind of exchange I have people when I when I do street ministry. Thanks for posting this exchange, I think it will helpful to me in framing my responses to others I talk with in the future. Thanks for the post.

  2. Absolutely this is great stuff. People always ask why or how God could send people that He loves to hell. This is a wonderfully worded response, and indeed a beautiful informative dialog. Thank you for posting it.

  3. Thank you, Michie. I hope to continue these posts soon.

  4. […] We have a responsibility to be keepers of, and stewards over, this treasure. That means we are to protect it, and put it to work, spreading it around, and causing it to multiply. O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: […]

  5. A theist cannot win in open debate against an atheist. Reason being, the theist makes very specific proclamations without evidence. Logic requires the theist to prove or validate his claims. If he does not then reason is not on his side (since he is not providing good reason to claim them). Winning any debate is predicated on which position is most ‘reasonable’ or adheres to rules of logic. Since the atheist is not advancing any theories or doctrines without evidence but merely disputing claims that have not met any reasonable burden of proof he is in the logically superior position.

  6. If by “theist” you mean someone with a general belief in some nonspecific “god” for whom he has no basis for the belief, you may be right, although we know that there is no such thing as a true “atheist.” There are only professing atheists who are running from, hiding from, or trying unsuccessfully with all their might to suppress the Truth.

    If by “theist” you mean Christian, then a true Christian’s duty is not to “win” a debate, but to proclaim Truth. Logic does not “require” anything. Logic is not a personal being or entity. God is the One who requires that unbelievers reject their prideful stance of pretended unbelief, and acknowledge His Son as the only Way to receive forgiveness of their sins. Regardless of anyone’s subjective ideas of who holds a “superior” position, the One True and Living God of the Christian Bible is the One Who is truly superior. He is Creator and Owner, and He makes all the rules and sets all the requirements. “…The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.” Mark 1:15

  7. This is bizarre. On what grounds do you claim atheists like myself are pretending? No ma’am or sir. There happen to exist people who actually don’t think like you. We require reasonable validation of claims before we call them knowledge. We also recognize the absurdity and non-believability of the scriptures. The impossible stories, the staggering violence, the absurd claims, and the numerous contradictions to science and reason are so completely divorced from reality that I cannot even fathom how anyone who is even remotely rational could seriously consider such prose as anything but primitive mythology.

    No “transcendental” entity of alleged superiority could or would ever behave so barbarically. Such a sick caricature could only originate from charlatans and power structures bent on using such fear tactics to coerce submission and compliance from the masses. During the bronze age there were no proper explanations for anything. Fear was the best method of control. With the advance of civilization, the renaissance and advances in science we have much better answers. There is no longer an excuse for enlightened people to be so captured by bronze age fairy tales.

  8. There is no such thing as a real “atheist.” According to Romans 1:18, people who pretend that they do not believe in God, actually not only believe in “a” God, but, deep down, they know that the Hebrew and Christian God of the Bible is the One True God. They don’t like this, so they “hold this truth in unrighteousness.” In other words, they make a great effort to push it down, or hold it down, so they don’t have to think about it and feel conviction. This is also the truth within Psalm 14:1 and Psalm 53:1. Fools who deny the existence of God are only trying to convince themselves of what they cannot really believe. People’s lives may give the appearance of integrity to the profession of their “atheism,” but the fact is, they are fighting hard against, or running away from, what they know to be true.

    I am well aware that there are vast multitudes of people who do not think like me. But they will not be judged for failing to think like me. Unless they repent, they will be judged for rejecting the Truth of God.

    Your faith is in the “Bronze Age” even though you did not personally experience it. You believe in it because you have read about it or heard about it from others, whose opinions you find more palatable than the Truth of God. Deep down, however, you have some innate understanding that the negative evaluation of what you consider “barbaric behavior” points you to the Law of God. You fear and despise this law, and its Giver, but this need not be the case. If you were to submit to Him, you would find peace, love, and forgiveness. “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;” (II Corinthians 5:17-18)

  9. It shouldn’t be too difficult to understand why someone becomes an atheist. As a child grows and develops he/she eventually develops a desire to validate knowledge. Learning to think independently means no longer accepting everything at face value.

    There is a fundamental difference in the way atheists and theists think. Most atheists use entirely different criteria to assess claims and validate knowledge. In a nut shell — empirical evidence, reason, scientific scrutiny, moral validity and factual probability. These are the rigors any theory must pass before it can be reliably accepted as knowledge.

    Belief for an atheist has no emotional component as compared to, say a Christian who is emotionally committed to their belief system. In fact whether Christians care to admit it or not, the psychological basis they gravitate to religious belief IS emotional. A Christian may even try to use reason to rationalize his belief but logic and critical thinking were never the primary motives for his commitment.

    This can be tested very easily simply by asking both sides what would it take to convince them they are wrong. In most cases the atheist will say that genuine proof is all that is required. But most theists will respond that nothing can make them lose faith in their God.” No amount of evidence to the contrary will suffice. The theist would rather tune it out. This is a sure indicator that the theist believes by emotion and not reason. It also show who are the open minded ones and who are not.

  10. It is not difficult at all to understand why someone professes to be an atheist. All people are born into this world with a sinful nature. “Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.” (Psalm 51:5) Children are not taught to lie, to be greedy, or to love themselves better than others. In fact, most parents have to strive to teach them otherwise. Their innate understanding tells them that their behavior is wrong, but their minds lose the battle with the desires of their flesh, or sinful nature, and they construct, with the aid of Satan and this world’s system, a pretense that allows them to continue in their hatred of God by professing that He’s not really there. “And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.” (John 3:19)

    These generic “theists” you mention differ from professing atheists only in that they are slightly more intellectually honest because they acknowledge the obvious fact that all of creation screams out that there is a Creator. Every devil in the universe is a “theist.” In fact, they are monotheists. “Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.” (James 2:19)

    Christians are not mere “theists.” They are new creations in Christ Jesus. They have been completely changed, ontologically, and have been given a new “heart,” a new “consciousness,” or whatever you would like to call the part of a person that makes him or her the essence of who he/she really is on the inside.

    You equate theistic belief with emotion, but true Christian belief is not the product of, nor is it ruled by, emotion. Christians have experienced the reality of regeneration. Professing atheists would pretend to base their beliefs on “reason,” “logic,” or “empirical evidence,” but the ability to think that way comes from God, and therefore, these professing atheists are emotionally attempting to worship creation rather than the Creator.

  11. All the Bible reveals to someone who has not abandoned critical thinking is the inherent absurdities and transparent falsehood contained within. It is difficult to find other literary prose that is as equally divorced from reality. Grimms fairy tales are more believable, less violent and contain far more sane moral teachings. In fact the Bible is it’s own worst inditement. Christians frequently encourage nonbelievers to read the Bible but ironically it is this very reading that makes Christianity so unconvincing to atheists. On any grounds you can name – philosophical, logistical, scientific and moral, – the bible is patently absurd. Accumulated bodies of knowledge in numerous scientific fields of study, – biology & evolution, physics, archeology & age study, astronomy/cosmology, anatomy and modern medicine characteristically contradict Biblical Scripture on a massive scale. There is simply no longer any excuse for anyone to subscribe to bronze age mythology over rigorous study ostensibly dedicated to science and reason.

    Then we get to, perhaps the worst of all, Biblical “morality”. It is rife with harsh codes of conduct and sick, barbaric punishments. God’s wrath is continuously evident as he, by commitment or commandment, inflicts slavery, rape, mass genocide, plagues, tribal mass murder, even infanticide. The human race was even wiped out (Noah and the great flood). The New Testament fares a little better but is still quite uncivilized. And now hell is introduced as it was missing until “benevolent” Jesus came along. Permanent torture in God’s ovens threatens billions of non-believers. But wait, -Revelations is right around the corner complete with god’s “final solution” – the greatest genocidal murder spree he is to ever commit. He will kill more humans at one time than in all of history. No real tyrant or fictitious story book character (including Satan) ever caused such widespread death and misery. If evil is to be defined by the infliction of pain, suffering and death then the god Yahweh is evil incarnate. This is some standard of morality.

    You also mentioned “original sin” – just more nonsense that contributes to the atheism’s valid case. It is, (as was aptly put): “where you are born sick and commanded to be well”. Another great thinker described it thus:

    “A sin without volition is a slap at morality and an insolent contradiction in terms: that which is outside the possibility of choice is outside the province of morality”.

    To hold, as mankind’s sin, a fact not open to his choice is a mockery of morality. To hold man’s nature as his sin is a mockery of nature. To punish him for a crime he committed before he was born is a mockery of justice. To hold him guilty in a matter where innocence is not possible is a mockery of reason.

    No wise and loving omniscient entity (if he were to exist) could or would be like this. Judeo-christianity is nothing more than a large scale con job to solicit belief and thwart disbelief using every deceptive tactic. The scriptures were penned by diabolical men and manipulative power institutions for the purpose of coercing submission and obedience from the masses to establish obedience, social cohesion and a ruling theocracy. Christianity appeals to a childish emotional need revere a mysterious authority that offers love and comfort in return for mindless submission (much the way an infant relates to it’s mother). Even worse, threatening people with demons, devils, dark forces, hell, torture and unspeakable punishment speaks to the worst nightmares of the gullible. These are the tools of fear used to suppress resistance and threaten anyone who even questions. They are perhaps the most effective of all; fear is an incredible motivator and can quite effectively cripple ones critical thinking.

    You are one of the first Christians I’ve ever run across who doesn’t even believe atheists are real. This is willful evasion of reality. That you would choose to believe a passage from Scripture despite evidence to the contrary is quite bizarre but then I should not be surprised as it is consistent with the blind belief of many other scriptural absurdities. As for the increased prevalence of atheism, – as people grow and evolve they learn to validate knowledge more objectively. They are turning away from the irrationality of supernaturalism, mysticism, and ancient barbaric morality in favor of reason, enlightenment and scientific reasoning. This is atheism, it is the new age of enlightenment and it is a change I welcome. There is hope yet for the world. Religion has no basis in reason or reality and it has poisoned the minds of far too many.

  12. Your hatred of the Bible comes not from the Bible being its own worst indictment. It comes from your fear that it is an indictment of YOU. As for critical thinking, I haven’t read much Grimm’s, but if your reading comprehension of Grimm’s is as accurate as your reading comprehension of the Bible, no one can place much stock in what you have to say about Grimm’s. Your blame of the Bible for the unbelief of the unbelievers is misplaced: “…they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive: For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.” (Matthew 13:13-15) The Bible has the power to hide truth and reveal truth at the same time, depending on the condition of the reader. And the Holy Spirit can arrest the process of your spiritual blindness, deafness, and hard-heartedness.

    Your objections to “original sin” are the typical professing atheist’s attempt at blame-shifting. You are secretly horrified that you cannot be “moral” even by your own sin-saturated standards of morality, so you blame God for making you thus. However, you know that you not only commit sin as naturally as you breathe, but you love it and do it willingly, as well.

    How sad to see you dictate your own self-promoting standards of how you feel “a wise and loving omniscient entity” should act. It is always a mistake to believe that anyone holds God to any standard. He never violates the Truth of His Own Word. People assume horrible atrocities go unpunished because they do not see what God sees. People will claim they want a God they can figure out (Romans 11:33-36), but God cannot be held to the standards of sinful men, because He is perfect, and men are sinful. However, He is also holy – and this goes beyond our finite understanding of perfection. (I Samuel 2:2). He cannot be compared with us, because He is not “like us, only better.” He is not “like us, only wiser.” He is not “like us, only more powerful.” He is not like us at all. We cannot truthfully determine the extent of God’s justice or the extent of His mercy. What we consider our righteousness is like filth to Him. (Isaiah 64:6). Professing atheists pretend that they want a logical little god they can subject to their own tests and standards. But that is because they are spiritually, albeit willfully, blind. (I Corinthians 2:14). That way they can please their pride, and tell themselves that they are not like the murderers and rapists – they are “only” liars or lustful or idolaters or blasphemers or covetous.
    I am glad to be one of the first Christians you have met to tell you about the real Truth. If you give me your geographical location, I can possibly locate for you some other Christians who understand the Truth as well, so you can speak to them. Of course, as always, you are encouraged to continue reading the Bible with an actual open mind and heart.

    You state there is hope yet for the world, and you are right. “Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.” (Romans 5:1-2) Jesus Christ is the Hope of the world. This professing atheism in which you have placed your hope is not bringing about a new age of enlightenment. You need only check the violent crimes statistics, the atrocities around the world, and oppression, and the hatred of Christ and His Word, which all go together, to see that your beloved Bronze Age pales in comparison to the “barbarism” you pretend to dislike. God doesn’t want to throw you in that “oven” you mentioned, although I have no doubt the thought keeps you up at night. He may, however, allow you to go there on your own if you really want. The Revelation of Jesus Christ which comes at the end of the Bible is not His “final solution.” The Cross of Calvary was His final solution. He paid the price for sinners who hate Him so that they could have a right relationship with Him. Until you stop squeezing your eyes shut, and cupping your hands over your ears, you are going to have trouble seeing and hearing the Truth. “Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:” (Galatians 1:3-4)

  13. […] 8:44 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. […]

  14. man, this post reeks of ignorance. Oh, and I’m a Christian by the way.

  15. Severin: Yeah, man, you’re right. There is much ignorance in what the professing atheist in this post is saying. However, it is “willful ignorance.” (II Peter 3:5) I’m a Christian “by the Way,” too. (John 14:6) Jesus is the ONLY “Way” to being a true Christian.

  16. […] savages!” We think we’re so much more enlightened today. They had none of our “advances,” modern technology, or civilized behavior. However, we need to remember that, just because those were ancient days and […]

  17. […] and (3) those who were proud of what they thought was their own knowledge, and who called it “science” (I Timothy […]

  18. […] Have you ever praised God for your “smart phone” or other modern communication device? Maybe you’ve praised and thanked Him for giving it to you, or maybe even for a time when it’s come in very handy in a crisis, but have you ever praised Him for the design and technology that went into inventing and making it? It is our tendency to think of some computer genius like Steve Jobs when we think of the “inventors” of these types of gadgets and technologies, but do you realize that neither Steve Jobs nor anyone else is the real “inventor” of smart phone technology? In fact, all they did was copy ideas that God put in their brains and then claim them as their own. […]

  19. […] Samson loved life, which sounds positive, but we have to be careful not to love life itself as a substitute for the Giver of Life. […]

  20. […] There’s no point in trying to hoodwink God. Is there anybody in your life with whom you can totally let down your guard? Anybody about whom you can say, “There is absolutely nothing they could find out about me that I wouldn’t want them to know.” Maybe your spouse, maybe even your parents or your child, but, even then, in human relationships intimate knowledge almost always carries a loss of respect, or at least reverence. Not with God, however. You’ll never find any “dirt” on Him. For Christians, our relationship with Him is clear: Loving Father and imperfect child; Creator and created. […]

  21. […] we place our trust in things made by man, rather than God’s truth, we are worshiping the created instead of the Creator – which is the essence of […]

  22. […] The Bible tells us that that thousands of years ago God told people that the life is in the blood. George Washington died after being “bled” as a means of healing, even though there was a Bible right there on his bedside table refuted this so-called “science.” […]

  23. […] Moses had plead with God to turn from His anger, but now he saw with his own eyes, and heard with his own ears, and he too expressed righteous anger, breaking these unique, precious tablets in view of all the people “beneath the mount.” This was the exact same spot where the people verbally agreed to be bound by God’s gracious covenant. They broke the Covenant figuratively; Moses demonstrated it literally. We speak of breaking God’s law – but it is God’s law that will break the sinner – just as jumping upward off a roof temporarily seems to break the law of gravity, but ultimately breaks the j…. […]

  24. […] At most major sporting events, the reference of John 3:16, if not the actual text, can be seen on a sign or banner. Seldom do we see a movie or TV program depict a funeral without someone reading from Psalm 23. […]


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